Curse

Xenrath · Aug 03, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I've usually been very careful about ingame transactions and never been scammed, so comments to the likes of "your fault" are not welcome here, nor are unhelpful other posts such as "stop crying" or along those lines. Please don't bother responding if you're going to post something like that.

Today I did a run for a group, the agreed price was 1k to be paid at the cutscene (money back if I failed or re-run) and made it very clear to all that we all take screenshots so nobody gets scammed from either way.

So did the run, get to the cutscene, one guy decides to offer 500 there and 500 on arrival. At this point ok, perhaps I should have just abandoned the entire run but it would have been unfair on the rest of the party who paid in full.

You can guess what happens - yep, complete the run and the scammer decides to pull a disappearing act.

Throughout this entire incident, before, during and after I had a complete set of screenshots and of course witness who saw the whole thing (and also took screenshots)

Naturally, after normally advising anyone who gets scammed to file a ticket with GW Support, I follow my own advice and submit the report (time/character names/district etc) and all the screenshots, including the witness who had asked what they could do to help.

Now this is what disturbs me the response I got

Quote:

Thanks for getting in touch with the support team regarding your question about player agreements.

We know that transactions that take place in the game world often involve a certain element of trust. A player will need to place trust in another player to fulfill his or her end of an agreement. Occasionally a player will go back on an agreement or act in a less-than-honest manner. Unfortunately, such acts are outside of our control and we are unable to take corrective measures. If a player does not live up to his or her end of an agreement, we are unable to force that player to do so. However, if we find that a player has violated the Terms of Service or Rules of Conduct (http://www.guildwars.com/legal/rules-of-conduct.html), we will take the necessary and appropriate actions against that player. If account actions are required (disclosure of this information will only be conveyed to the offending party), we are not at liberty to discuss account related issues with anyone but the account holder due to our privacy policy.

If you have additional questions please let us know.

Bit highlighted by me for emphasis is what bothers me. I looked at the RoC and Rule 1 is

Quote:

1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

I've clearly been defrauded and consider it a form of distress to be scammed.

However, the bold bit from the response seems to indicate Anet are unwilling or incapable of doing anything about it? Now I'm not asking Anet to compensate for the loss, but how am I to know something's being done about the scammer, if anything following that? Some clarification on the issue would be appreciated.

This brings to memory a certain monk character in Droknar that was trying to pull the old bait and switch scam (and had actually succeeded). The whole district at the time was spamming warnings about that player and quite a few came forward who had been scammed beforehand, and apparently put in reports about that one. However, maybe a week or so (can't remember exactly) I saw the exact same character still online. So, now that I've remembered that, will this be a repeat too? What's the deal with Anet and scamming, especially if you have a solid case with screenshots and witnesses?

I know, long post

Sekkira · Aug 03, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

They can't take corrective measures as in refund the money or whatever lost. They can ban or suspend the person in question, but it wont get what you've lost back.

Shadow-Hunter · Aug 03, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

No, but it makes you feel So freaking much better!!

Xenrath · Aug 03, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Ah that makes it more clearer - I wasn't expecting any compensation but would like to see something done about it. Just wondering if anyone had any experiences where they got scammed, reported it (with screenies) and that was the last of the scammer? Or did they turn back up again?

Terra Xin · Aug 03, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Defraud means to have something "taken" from you by a means of fraud, since it was only an offer, and nothing was given, you inherently lost nothing at all.

Accrued acts such as this is something Anet cannot do anything about.

Your best chance is to harden your policies. If you say 1k then stick to your guns, or punish the whole group by giving them a refund, and then naming the one preson who wouldn't pay in full.

If you still have questions, Anet does advise you to go and ask them, so maybe you could question them again and state the first RoC that you believe has been breached. If they look into it, you might get a clearer response.

Carl Butanananowski · Aug 03, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

various times ive been harrased by someone and, when and if i retaliate, they accuse me of whatever. i actually was reported and warned because someone started yelling at me (because i wasnt doing exactly as they specified in RA) saying things like 'YO MOMMAS GOT A TIGHT-ASS PUSSY, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOTARD NOOB!' etc etc something about being a cracker whatever. i responded with 'whatever weirdo.' the dude actually took a screenshot of what i said and claimed it was racially offensive. the funniest thing tho..

ANET BELIEVED IT.

i was given a warning that if i did something like this again i would have my account banned.

... god that pissed me off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

or punish the whole group by giving them a refund, and then naming the one preson who wouldn't pay in full.

btw, how is that punishment..?

J3mo · Aug 03, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Yea lol I know exactly what you mean, I've once been scammed for 90k (yes 90k)
With an ordinary switch trick, but hey I didn't know about those tricks.
I took screenshots of everything possible --> ticket to anet...

Then I got the same bullshit mail of some GM who talks like some robot.

And guess what the person is still online, and that incident was atleast 4 months ago.

Bokocasso · Aug 03, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

One thing - scamming over 500gold is so PATHETIC! >

Terra Xin · Aug 03, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Butanananowsk

btw, how is that punishment..?

By logical observation, refunds are an indication that a particular event did not meet its expectation. So the run is not completed.

Bartuc Galadwor · Aug 03, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I had a friend who scammed someone for over 700k and he got reported and banned for a week, but kept all the money. So it seems that they do react to big scams but only with a short ban and I don't think they respond to simple scams that aren't worth alot of cash, such as, not paying someone for a run.

Xenrath · Aug 03, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Just to clarify the offer was in fact a new agreement/transaction as it was accepted (and again, screenshots were provided to that effect) so for that particular person a new transaction and agreement was in process... hence I did lose out and they didn't keep their end of the agreement. Note, yes 500g is a piddly amount and not like it's going to break me lol I'm more interested in what the policy seems to be and how it works out for people.

Yes, it would have punished the whole group otherwise as they'd all end up with a failed transaction (and refund) as a result of one potential scammer.

In any case, since it's Anet policy not to discuss what (if any) action they take, I'm therefore interested in observations and experiences from other players who reported scammers and what they observed happened (if anything) to the scammer... specifically does anyone have examples where they were scammed and nobody has ever seen the scammer since? i.e. that one's been banned? How's the system work?

Edit: hmm that's an interesting thought, value of transaction affects policy? The scammer kept the money and got only a week ban... wow...

tear · Aug 03, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

i'm almost certain they wont take any disciplinary measures toward someone who doesn't pay for your run

running is not a regulated and natural part of the game like trading is, with implemented means of carrying out transactions and preventing "scamming" or automatically forcing you to pay for the service if you receive it

honestly, i don't believe he has to pay you. because there isn't the equivalent of a trade window for running, the situation is a very messy one and you can't really enforce any sort of rules around it

Harold · Aug 03, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

What about those damn leechers in Aspenwood / Jade Quarry? It's so frustrating to see the same damn names show up on your team and sit there without moving for the entire match. Does Anet do anything about these asses? Is it worth reporting?

Eternal Snake · Aug 03, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harold

What about those damn leechers in Aspenwood / Jade Quarry? It's so frustrating to see the same damn names show up on your team and sit there without moving for the entire match. Does Anet do anything about these asses? Is it worth reporting?

I doubt anything can be done, but it is terribly annoying.

ZenRgy · Aug 03, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

As far as in game problems go, Anet are far from good at fixing them, no in-game presence etc.

But I just keep my wits about me, I've never been scammed for a large amount of money - if I'm running or being run, I know that it's a gamble as there are always scammers etc.

Yobz · Aug 03, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

You could always demand that players wanting to get run give you their chest peice of armor, which they will get back once they have provided payment.

I have used this method when people ask for 50g to supposedly unlock their storage.

Gaile Gray · Aug 03, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

They can't take corrective measures as in refund the money or whatever lost. They can ban or suspend the person in question, but it wont get what you've lost back.

This is correct. We will take action, once the report is proved (which is usually not that difficult for us to do). We cannot refund lost items or money, nor can we tell you the outcome of the investigation, due to our Privacy Policy. We do, however, take action against scammers on a daily, even hourly, basis. They may be blocked for a significant period of time, and they may well have their account permanently terminated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Butanananowski

i was given a warning that if i did something like this again i would have my account banned.

Sorry, I need to ask who warned you, because, well, we do not give warnings. If someone has done something outside the User Agreement or the Rules of Conduct, we take action on that account. If you were warned, I would say it was not by ArenaNet nor NCsoft. Perhaps you can send me the warning you received, so I can investigate exactly what happened?

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

Yea lol I know exactly what you mean, I've once been scammed for 90k (yes 90k) With an ordinary switch trick, but hey I didn't know about those tricks. I took screenshots of everything possible --> ticket to anet... Then I got the same bullshit mail of some GM who talks like some robot. And guess what the person is still online, and that incident was atleast 4 months ago.

If you want to PM me your Support ticket number, I will look it up. The person may have had his lengthy time out and have come back a changed, nay, redeemed person. If that is the case, you might feel he was not dealt with, when in fact he was. Again, we do act, and we don't tell, so it could be hard for the reporting player to know exactly what did happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartuc Galadwor

I had a friend who scammed someone for over 700k and he got reported and banned for a week, but kept all the money. So it seems that they do react to big scams but only with a short ban and I don't think they respond to simple scams that aren't worth alot of cash, such as, not paying someone for a run.

We respond to all reports. And I would wager that if your friend slips across that line and scams again, he'll be well and truly gone.

The bottom line is that, surprising as it may be, we do investigate all reports and act upon those that require it. The area of "gentlemen's agreements" are something out of which we keep, and as pointed out in this thread, there is a difference between running for cash and making an in-game trade.

Xenrath · Aug 03, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The area of "gentlemen's agreements" are something out of which we keep, and as pointed out in this thread, there is a difference between running for cash and making an in-game trade.

Don't runs and other services count as ingame trades though? After all, it's a service exchanged for something else, still using the trade window? Or if I read this right then basically trading for items is one thing, offering a service is another? Hmm, well in that case seems service providers (and users of services) kinda "at your own risk"

Loviatar · Aug 03, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Don't runs and other services count as ingame trades though? After all, it's a service exchanged for something else, still using the trade window? Or if I read this right then basically trading for items is one thing, offering a service is another? Hmm, well in that case seems service providers (and users of services) kinda "at your own risk"

that is correct.

ingame items for trade are provided by Anet.

running was not a planned (supported) game feature

the running service is something thought up by players and is neither blocked nor supported by Anet

Andy_M · Aug 03, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Except of course when they put rather large gates in the way...